The Tail That Wags The Dog

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Posted 9:35pm on Mon 18 March 2013
altaranga
  • Posts: 7,366
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The Tail That Wags The Dog
So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

Inexcusable, I say.

They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

I might be wrong.

But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

Your thoughts?
Posted 11:27pm on Mon 18 March 2013
CheekyLee
  • Posts: 7,259
00
In response to Topic
So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

Inexcusable, I say.

They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

I might be wrong.

But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

Your thoughts?

» Go to altaranga's original post
One would have to assume that the lack of co-op is down to reliance on the Gamepad for various features. Yes, there probably is a workaround, but developing for a console with such an obvious avenue to explore whilst still trying to hit a fairly tight "launch window" release time almost certainly impacted upon what was put in and what was left out.

The same probably goes for the technical issues, too. The first wave of games on any new platform rarely match up to the later ones. Unpolished is just a thing to accept this early in the consoles life.

HOWEVER ...

I doubt it is incomplete. That is something that Nintendo simply don't allow. Remember that time Nintendo shipped a game with the breaking bug in it? Me neither. Or, that time when they saw a title was not up to scratch, but let it go out anyway rather than delay or even completely redo it? (Hint: You don't.)

There are manifold problems with the big publishers in the games industry and their attitude to customers. Nintendo, regardless of your own preference to content, are not part of that equation. No online passes, no on-disc DLC stripped from the main game to be sold on at additional cost, no pre-order exclusive bonuses. Everything works, everything is included, and everything is for everyone.

It is your own preconception that deems a LEGO game without co-op as "incomplete". Even if I agree with you insofar as being annoyed by its non-inclusion, the fact is that we can't really make that particular accusation. Oversight? Mistake? Massive frustration? Yes, certainly. I said the same about Killzone 2, as at that time I was playing most AAA shooters in co-op with Jeni, and have argued that as many games as possible should include co-op no matter how little sense it might make in terms of story.

In response to your initial query, I say the review is not to be trusted. Partially because Mr. Denton comes across to me as one of the least thorough games reviewers I have ever read, with VERY pre-conceived ideas about how a game is going to be before he even plays it, and then tries to make the gameplay fit his own archetype. But mostly because I simply don't base my opinions on ANY reviewers these days. I find the crowd to be a much more accurate indicator, hence I use a combination of multiple reviews as well as comment threads, reddit, /v/, Twitter, Youtube Let's Plays, and my own instinct.
Posted 5:23am on Tue 19 March 2013
FantasyMeister
  • Posts: 6,147
01
In response to Topic
So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

Inexcusable, I say.

They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

I might be wrong.

But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

Your thoughts?

» Go to altaranga's original post
My thoughts are that it's a PEGI 7 Lego game. The core audience that it's aiming for isn't going to worry too much about these issues and, most likely, will never read a review anyway.
Posted 9:17am on Tue 19 March 2013
dav2612
  • Posts: 6,840
00
In response to CheekyLee's
One would have to assume that the lack of co-op is down to reliance on the Gamepad for various features. Yes, there probably is a workaround, but developing for a console with such an obvious avenue to explore whilst still trying to hit a fairly tight "launch window" release time almost certainly impacted upon what was put in and what was left out.

The same probably goes for the technical issues, too. The first wave of games on any new platform rarely match up to the later ones. Unpolished is just a thing to accept this early in the consoles life.

HOWEVER ...

I doubt it is incomplete. That is something that Nintendo simply don't allow. Remember that time Nintendo shipped a game with the breaking bug in it? Me neither. Or, that time when they saw a title was not up to scratch, but let it go out anyway rather than delay or even completely redo it? (Hint: You don't.)

There are manifold problems with the big publishers in the games industry and their attitude to customers. Nintendo, regardless of your own preference to content, are not part of that equation. No online passes, no on-disc DLC stripped from the main game to be sold on at additional cost, no pre-order exclusive bonuses. Everything works, everything is included, and everything is for everyone.

It is your own preconception that deems a LEGO game without co-op as "incomplete". Even if I agree with you insofar as being annoyed by its non-inclusion, the fact is that we can't really make that particular accusation. Oversight? Mistake? Massive frustration? Yes, certainly. I said the same about Killzone 2, as at that time I was playing most AAA shooters in co-op with Jeni, and have argued that as many games as possible should include co-op no matter how little sense it might make in terms of story.

In response to your initial query, I say the review is not to be trusted. Partially because Mr. Denton comes across to me as one of the least thorough games reviewers I have ever read, with VERY pre-conceived ideas about how a game is going to be before he even plays it, and then tries to make the gameplay fit his own archetype. But mostly because I simply don't base my opinions on ANY reviewers these days. I find the crowd to be a much more accurate indicator, hence I use a combination of multiple reviews as well as comment threads, reddit, /v/, Twitter, Youtube Let's Plays, and my own instinct.

» Go to CheekyLee's original post
Didn't a Zelda game on the Wii come with a game breaking bug?
Posted 10:00am on Tue 19 March 2013
TomO
  • Posts: 1,136
01
In response to Topic
So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

Inexcusable, I say.

They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

I might be wrong.

But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

Your thoughts?

» Go to altaranga's original post
Out of interest, why do you suggest the review can't be trusted?
Posted 10:01am on Tue 19 March 2013
EverTheOptimist
  • Posts: 1,775
00
In response to FantasyMeister's
My thoughts are that it's a PEGI 7 Lego game. The core audience that it's aiming for isn't going to worry too much about these issues and, most likely, will never read a review anyway.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
Completely agree. Besides, how many other games are released with spluttering frame rates? It's hardly an uncommon occurrence.
Posted 11:17am on Tue 19 March 2013
rbevanx
    00
    In response to CheekyLee's
    One would have to assume that the lack of co-op is down to reliance on the Gamepad for various features. Yes, there probably is a workaround, but developing for a console with such an obvious avenue to explore whilst still trying to hit a fairly tight "launch window" release time almost certainly impacted upon what was put in and what was left out.

    The same probably goes for the technical issues, too. The first wave of games on any new platform rarely match up to the later ones. Unpolished is just a thing to accept this early in the consoles life.

    HOWEVER ...

    I doubt it is incomplete. That is something that Nintendo simply don't allow. Remember that time Nintendo shipped a game with the breaking bug in it? Me neither. Or, that time when they saw a title was not up to scratch, but let it go out anyway rather than delay or even completely redo it? (Hint: You don't.)

    There are manifold problems with the big publishers in the games industry and their attitude to customers. Nintendo, regardless of your own preference to content, are not part of that equation. No online passes, no on-disc DLC stripped from the main game to be sold on at additional cost, no pre-order exclusive bonuses. Everything works, everything is included, and everything is for everyone.

    It is your own preconception that deems a LEGO game without co-op as "incomplete". Even if I agree with you insofar as being annoyed by its non-inclusion, the fact is that we can't really make that particular accusation. Oversight? Mistake? Massive frustration? Yes, certainly. I said the same about Killzone 2, as at that time I was playing most AAA shooters in co-op with Jeni, and have argued that as many games as possible should include co-op no matter how little sense it might make in terms of story.

    In response to your initial query, I say the review is not to be trusted. Partially because Mr. Denton comes across to me as one of the least thorough games reviewers I have ever read, with VERY pre-conceived ideas about how a game is going to be before he even plays it, and then tries to make the gameplay fit his own archetype. But mostly because I simply don't base my opinions on ANY reviewers these days. I find the crowd to be a much more accurate indicator, hence I use a combination of multiple reviews as well as comment threads, reddit, /v/, Twitter, Youtube Let's Plays, and my own instinct.

    » Go to CheekyLee's original post
    Yeah I agree on the incomplete comment as possibly being a perception of Lego fans.
    I felt a similar thing happend with the Splinter Cell and recent Hitman game, where people go in expecting something...to an extent the same formula.
    But when they find that formula has been changed they are staright away in some cases already negative towards the game, rather than judge it on it's own basis.
    I also think this is a growing thing and I would love to point the finger at others for doing this, but I am also guilty of doing this...prime example being Deus Ex: HR.
    At first I hated it and it does have some serious negatives but all round is a decent bit of fun...but is a marmite game as the bosses, game freezes and controls in combat felt a bit off, along with areas that didn't feel open and more like levels.

    I think people should try to ignore the previous games in the franchise and just judge as it own's standalone piece of work, I think that way at least you will enjoy it more.
    Posted 12:40pm on Tue 19 March 2013
    DancingRhino
      00
      In response to Topic
      So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

      Inexcusable, I say.

      They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

      I might be wrong.

      But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

      Your thoughts?

      » Go to altaranga's original post
      I'd like to know if the technical issue are really due to lack of grunt, as said in the review, or because of lack of optimization/ getting used to new hardware. PS3 and 360, the wii u s apparent equals can manage open worlds at stable frame rates can't they. It would be rather depressing if the Wii u was struggling with a close-to-launch game.

      From the extended play video it's far from unplayable though. Looks good fun actually.
      Posted 7:56pm on Tue 19 March 2013
      altaranga
      • Posts: 7,366
      00
      In response to TomO's
      Out of interest, why do you suggest the review can't be trusted?

      » Go to TomO's original post
      It was a joke, based upon the negative feedback you have had with recent reviews such as Dead Space 3.

      Edit: Oh yeah, and your report about Dead Space 4 being canned. That went down well, too.
      Posted 9:10pm on Tue 19 March 2013
      MJTH
      • Posts: 2,943
      00
      In response to Topic
      So if this review is to be trusted, and who knows these days, Tt (or Tt Fusion, who cares?) have released a Lego game that "stutters and splutters" and is also without co-op.

      Inexcusable, I say.

      They must have known about the frame rate issues, and yet they still pushed it out. And as for no co-op, was this based on being surplus to requirements or because they didn't have time to do it? My feeling is that if they couldn't sort out the former issue in time then the latter was canned.

      I might be wrong.

      But why release a game that is unpolished and apparently incomplete? Was this a decision made by Nintendo to get the game onto the market, despite its shortcomings?

      Your thoughts?

      » Go to altaranga's original post
      I think the lack of Co-op was probably a design decision. In previous games Co-op worked because the main gameplay focused around swapping from character to character to use their different abilities. So if you were going to have multiple character you may as well have multiple players. And this worked well because in all the franchises they based their games off of, always had multiple characters on screen because that is how a certain franchise played out.

      This was Tt (or Tt Fusions) first attempt on making a full home console game of their own, and they based the story around this singular character Chase Mccain who dons different disguises. The story they made didn't really allow for multiplayer, in the same way the other games did. This is what they wanted the game to play out as. And then there is the whole gamepad gameplay options argument, which would of hindered them slightly.

      As for frame rate issues and long loading, thats always inexcusable, but I don't think it will hinder my gameplay experience all to much. I'll post otherwise if it does.

      As for un-trust-worthy reviews I don't mind Jon Denton and Chris Schiling free lance reviews, that much, but I can see why people would have issue. Some harsh scores, mixed with a lack of knowledge of the people behind the reviews. It's easier to agree with peoples opinions when you think you know the people who write them. We used to hear Neon, Martin, Wes, Jamin, Emily all the time one the podcast and on video features and we got to know their opinions over time. But with the free lancers, the only time we see anything from them is when they review a game so we don't know where they coming from. This is something that would be solved with an in house review editorial team... (hint hint.. *wink* wink*... *cough* Just hire the two guys already Tom *cough*)

      @Dav2612 Yeah they've had that happen twice now. A game breaking bug in skyward sword and Twilight princess. However the process of it happening in both cases was very specific. In TP it was something like if saved and exited the game in this one specific room you only entered once in entire then there was bug would stop you from progressing. A lot of people weren't effected because Midna (your side kick) literally prompts you to teleports out of the room for story purposes once the cutscene in the room ends. Skyward swords bug was even more specific (something about doing things in an unintended order then talking to this random NPC before saving and exiting the game straight away). There is no excuse really, but it's one of those things that as designer you probably expect no one to do. And even then Nintendo went out of their way to create a patch system for the Wii in it's dying years just to fix the problem for people.
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