When Achievements Aren't Achievements

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Posted 8:53am on Tue 23 October 2012
FantasyMeister
  • Posts: 6,147
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When Achievements Aren't Achievements
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.
Posted 9:31am on Tue 23 October 2012
dav2612
  • Posts: 6,537
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In response to Topic
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
"Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design"

Completely agree.

There is absolutely no consistency. What's a 100G/gold trophy on one game is a 10G/bronze trophy on another.

I've always felt the achievements need to be broken into categories; a section for the single player, section for the co-op player and a section for multiplayer. Each game should have X number of points for single player and so forth.

Single player achievements should not require extra hardware either. I had to spend a couple of pound getting the old PS2 Eye camera in order to get my last trophy on Burnout Paradise and therefore get the platinum. It was only £2 but I've bought the game, surely that should be enough to enable me to obtain all the awards?
Posted 9:38am on Tue 23 October 2012
Marink
  • Posts: 3,857
01
In response to Topic
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
Posted 9:57am on Tue 23 October 2012
pblive
  • Posts: 18,179
00
In response to Topic
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
I never bother.

Even when I finish a game, I'm not going back to get all the achievements unless it's actually fun. If I'm not having fun then you can forget it, I'm not going out of my way to pick up achievements. That's probably why my Gamerscore is still so low.
Posted 10:04am on Tue 23 October 2012
dudester
  • Posts: 4,080
00
In response to Topic
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
I think this is why the trophy system is a bit more consistent generally getting the silver and golds take more work then the little trophies. But then again I never go back to the platinum.
Posted 10:05am on Tue 23 October 2012
dav2612
  • Posts: 6,537
00
In response to pblive's
I never bother.

Even when I finish a game, I'm not going back to get all the achievements unless it's actually fun. If I'm not having fun then you can forget it, I'm not going out of my way to pick up achievements. That's probably why my Gamerscore is still so low.

» Go to pblive's original post
I seldom play a game twice so that isn't the source of your low gamerscore. Usually you can pick up a fair number of achievements in a single play through to the end credits. I'd say your low gamerscore is a reflection on your gaming habits, you tend to play lots of different games but don't seem to see many to the end.
Posted 10:29am on Tue 23 October 2012
CheekyLee
  • Posts: 7,260
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In response to Topic
I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

» Go to FantasyMeister's original post
Personally, I would say that the Legendary difficulty ones and the skull ones are actual achievements. And NO HEALTH DAMAGE? If that isn't something worthy of the ding, then I don't know what is. The problem is that you have deliberately tried to circumvent the intended design. You have taken advantage of the way Halo is programmed, in that as long as one of you is still alive then you will respawn at the next checkpoint, and utilised this to grab the Gs. I bet player 2 used health kits. Also, how long did it take you? And, was it actually enjoyable, tip-toeing through the spaceship a room at a time? Surely your time would have been better spent finding 3 friends, and taking it in turns to carry one or two of you through the whole level for said achievements?

If you ask me, they are some pretty lazily designed cheevos anyway. (Ugh, I said "cheevos", shoot me now.) They sound worthy, and skillful, but all they really do is encourage grind and/or behaviour like yours and that which I suggested. I would much rather there be some hidden things in the level, or some alternate challenges. I remember back on GoldenEye for the N64, I had a friend who was downright obsessed with the game. He challenged himself to play through the Bunker 2 level using only throwing knives. Would it not be more fun to try "No nades" or "Covenant pistol only", level permitting?
Posted 11:14am on Tue 23 October 2012
rbevanx
    00
    In response to CheekyLee's
    Personally, I would say that the Legendary difficulty ones and the skull ones are actual achievements. And NO HEALTH DAMAGE? If that isn't something worthy of the ding, then I don't know what is. The problem is that you have deliberately tried to circumvent the intended design. You have taken advantage of the way Halo is programmed, in that as long as one of you is still alive then you will respawn at the next checkpoint, and utilised this to grab the Gs. I bet player 2 used health kits. Also, how long did it take you? And, was it actually enjoyable, tip-toeing through the spaceship a room at a time? Surely your time would have been better spent finding 3 friends, and taking it in turns to carry one or two of you through the whole level for said achievements?

    If you ask me, they are some pretty lazily designed cheevos anyway. (Ugh, I said "cheevos", shoot me now.) They sound worthy, and skillful, but all they really do is encourage grind and/or behaviour like yours and that which I suggested. I would much rather there be some hidden things in the level, or some alternate challenges. I remember back on GoldenEye for the N64, I had a friend who was downright obsessed with the game. He challenged himself to play through the Bunker 2 level using only throwing knives. Would it not be more fun to try "No nades" or "Covenant pistol only", level permitting?

    » Go to CheekyLee's original post
    Yeah I liked getting all the unlocks on Goldeneye.

    With the whole thing I agree it's not a great system. Some games they unlock for "100 kills with so and so" or "you died 20 times" and if I'm honest I will get these if they take me a few minutes but will not go out of my way for them and the game itself takes priority over trophies etc.
    I look for easy throphies/GS when I have played the campaign unless I really wanna do a side mission which I may have missed etc.

    @pblive
    Sorry if your average is 7% out of 200 odd games then you don't finish the majority of your games. I think you missed my advice on another thread which was to concentrate on game at a time rather than play every game that comes out for 15 mins.
    As I remember pointing out that you started Borderlands 1 for two days and then went straight onto number 2 without really doing anything on the first one.
    Posted 1:16pm on Tue 23 October 2012
    pblive
    • Posts: 18,179
    00
    In response to Topic
    I really hate these. At least with Avatar: The Burning Earth you had to press a button, or, you know, actually be present. See below:



    But last night I managed to rack up 185 Gamerscore, 7 Achievements, by plugging a second controller into my 360 and running a co-op partner through the opening level of Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary whilst my Master Chief just stood there doing nothing, which netted me:

    10G Complete any level on Normal difficulty cooperatively.
    20G Complete any level on Heroic difficulty cooperatively.
    50G Complete any level on Legendary difficulty cooperatively.
    25G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no health kits.
    10G Complete "Pillar of Autumn" on Legendary, no Overshield.
    20G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, no health damage.
    50G Complete any level on Heroic or higher, 3 skulls active.

    Cheevos should have as much attention paid to them as game design because I get really disappointed when they aren't thought out properly.

    I still think the best example of Achievement design is in an RPG from a few years back, Blue Dragon, where you could finish the epic storyline with just 70G, to get the other 930G you really had to pull of some pretty awesome grinds and feats of dexterity.

    They could even have gone one further and offered an Achievement for getting through the game without actually setting off any existing Achievements. But that would just have been nasty. Maybe.

    » Go to FantasyMeister's original post
    I'm not going to disagree, if I don't enjoy a game I won't play it through and I've rented a lot of games I didn't end up liking.

    The situation is improving with my concentration on games, though, thanks to finally lugging my 360 upstairs to be study.
    Posted 4:31pm on Tue 23 October 2012
    Sov
    • Posts: 143
    According to Raptr just over 11% of people who've played the Simpsons game don't have that achievement....
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